Welcome, welcome everyone. I am Margaret Osborn. I'm founder of Be Unabashed and your host today, I am joined by our founders, co-founders, Brooke Salazar. Say hello, Brooke.
Brooke (00:13)
Hello!
Margaret (00:14)
and Lisa Jacobson Brown.
Lisa (00:17)
Hello!
Margaret (00:19)
And you know what, we're just gonna get right into it because this is such an exciting, exciting topic and we're gonna take a really quick poll of this large group of the three of us today. Show of hands, how many of us are Taylor Swift followers?
Majority, majority. All right, Brooke and Lisa, talk to us about Taylor Swift. Why do you follow her?
Brooke (00:47)
Why am I a follower? Oh, I'm a fan. I'm a stan. She is considered one of my very best friends. Of course, I'm not one of her very best friends, but I am much more, and I wanna be really clear about this, than a follower. Her music, I don't wanna brag, but I was a comparative lit minor in college. So I know from whence I speak, hashtag humble brag. But her lyrics speak to me in a way that just resonates down to my bone marrow. But my favorite thing I think about her, it echoes through her music, is her authenticity. And in the last few years, I think we've seen a thirst, a desperate need for folks being authentic.
Margaret (01:40)
yeah, Lisa, why are you follower or fan?
Lisa (01:44)
I'm not like a super, super fan, but I very much admire her. I like her music. I've always liked her music. But I think the turning point for me personally, which kind of fits in with this whole unabashed theme, is that song that she has, If I Were a Man. It resonated with me like nothing else. And it just, it really turned me onto her music. I started listening more to everything and paying more attention to just how she runs her business and what an amazing businesswoman she is. She's just a superpower. And she actually seems like a lovely human being who has stayed very grounded.
So I continued to follow her because of that, but I was really turned on by that particular song.
Margaret (02:32)
Yeah, I will say I never really followed her, but I did become more aware of it all when the Eras tour came about. Because you know, I saw all these people dressed up in all these different outfits. I'm like, what is going on here? And then I started looking more into it and I saw...
that each album she had a different persona so to speak and so I started looking more into it and there was that one song Shake It Off that like really annoyed the crap out of me at first and then I got all into it and I was like yeah shake it off shake it off.
So whether we're Swifties or not, lately our feeds are full of engagement photos of the Swift and very handsome Travis. while the world gushes over that ring, want to talk about something far more powerful. And that is Taylor's ability to strategically reinvent herself again and again and again without ever losing her identity and we cannot deny that she is brilliant and this 35 year old woman is someone every ambitious professional woman can really take lessons from because reinvention is not an identity crisis. It's a skill, right? And when done right, it can become one of your biggest strengths. So today we're going to talk about what career women can learn from Ms. Swift, soon to be Mrs.
She's a genius artist and business person. Today we've narrowed our focus to just four lessons and we're going to jump right in. She is consistent in evolving. We've already established that. New sounds, styles, personas. And for someone who has not followed her, this may sound in fact, like an identity crisis, but she wouldn't be the world's wealthiest, most badass female musician if this wasn't strategic. Right, Brooke? And why does this work?
Brooke (04:48)
Well, I think if we could take a lesson from what she said was that she felt like her label was trying to replace her. And so before they could do that, she reinvented herself to make herself irreplaceable. And I think that is so important because as we talk about the shifts or the pivots or what that looks like, it's still identifiable to her, her fans, her market, if you will.
And so there's consistency in what that looks like. And I think it's because as she evolves, her identity, her values, what she talks about in her music, despite the fact that it may sound different or look different, is the same. And so whether that is whichever era gal or... guy or they you are, there's no era that I don't connect with because it is built upon that authenticity, the storytelling which I love, and that ability to be so authentic that there is a connection. And to me that's one of the most important parts is that authenticity builds connection.
Margaret (06:08)
What do you think, Lisa?
Lisa (06:09)
Absolutely, absolutely agree. she, you know, she is a trendsetter. But it, she appears to me, and of course, I don't know her as well as Brooke does. She's not my best one, but.
Brooke (06:19)
Not a lot of people do. I'm not, I'm not an Easter egg Swifty, but I am a, that I am a hyper fixated gal. So thank you.
Lisa (06:29)
But
you know, she seems like she knows what's important to her and she shares that with her fans in such an authentic way. There's so much truth to it. And I think that people are just inspired by her. And the sheer genius of her taking all of these different eras in this eras tour, think one of the reasons why it was so huge, obviously it was long. Such a long show, she poured her heart out to everyone around the world. But it's that all these people who connected to each album, they all got something out of it. So whether you are obsessed with two albums or one or every single one, you get something out of it. And it's the nostalgia and just her bringing you along for the ride with her entire career. She's been in front of the spotlight since she was a teenager. So she uses that and makes new fans along the way. It's just, she's a phenomenon.
Margaret (07:33)
Do you think, when you think about her values, do you think connection, do you think that's intentional? Do you think connection is one of her values?
Lisa (07:42)
I don't think she does anything that isn't intentional. I think she is a super smart woman. I think that she appears to be the kind of person that connection does come naturally to her, but I don't think she does anything by mistake. That's my viewpoint.
Margaret (07:59)
Let's relate this back to ourselves think about our values and our values at work. And I know that I have been most fulfilled in a role when my own values have been aligned with the people I worked with and the people I work for, the organization I work for.
And I know that I have been most miserable when those values did not or no longer aligned.
Have either of you ever felt a value misalignment? Brooke, what do think?
Brooke (08:36)
I think the most important thing when we talk about authenticity, and to me authenticity is connection, is knowing yourself and embracing yourself. And so being able to identify what your values are is the most important first step, I think. And I know at the beginning of my career, I didn't have money to... to reject jobs. I'm in a great space. only work with organizations that I absolutely believe in now. But when I was younger, I was poor. I was inexperienced and I absolutely needed cash to everyone, it felt like, to be fair, to pay all the people. And so I definitely took jobs that misaligned with my values, that maybe the leadership didn't have the same values that I did. And in my, in my naivety, in my youngness, I thought, well, somebody has to bring these values to this organization. And if that's me, then I will do that. But I definitely think that it is a blessing to find organizations and to be in a situation where you can say I'm not gonna choose to work with X because it doesn't align with.
Margaret (10:04)
What about you, Lisa?
Lisa (10:05)
There's one job in particular that I can think of that I didn't necessarily agree with some of the values that the company was portraying. And it was very difficult for me to give it my all. And I had to make this decision to focus on the things, like Brooke said, that I could impact where my values did align, but ultimately.
You know, it's exhausting to be in a company like that. So it's very difficult.
Margaret (10:36)
It is, it is. And I'm quite certain that there are people listening to this right now that can identify, maybe knot in the pit of their stomach thinking, you know, yeah, I don't feel like where I am fits me anymore. And you're not wrong. You shouldn't feel bad about it. You're not being disloyal.
I think to Brooke's point, it's clarity. You're evolving. And I think the most unabashed move is to find that clarity and to choose, alignment over the wrong thing for you. Because in the long term, it does affect your physical and your mental health. I think loyalty is such a misguided thing. We think we have to be loyal to our employers and all of sudden like 10 years has gone by and you're like, what the hell am I doing with my life? That gut feeling of, man, I'm just not happy here. This doesn't feel right. It's not rebellion. It is to Brooks Point clarity.
Lisa (11:43)
Can I say one thing though? This is a lesson that I learned that I've never forgotten after mass layoffs at a ⁓ particular company where I happened to be one of the people who they kept. One of the vice presidents said, you know, as far as loyalty goes, the company is never going to love you back. It just isn't. So always remember that you can love the company, but it's here to make money. It's never gonna love you back. And I've always remembered that. it's a bit of a sad truth, but I do think it's largely true.
Margaret (12:17)
Let's go down this road, because Brooke, I hear you in my head, and I'm gonna call you out. You have said time and time again, work is not family, right?
Brooke (12:31)
The only people that are going to remember that you worked late is your family. Are the people that you love and the people that that impacts in a negative way. it's not healthy to be so loyal. your child's never gonna forget that you didn't make it to whatever event, they will never forget that.
Lisa (12:54)
And I think that to a degree, not to drag this out, I know we need to swing back to Taylor Swift, but it's a little bit of, I will call it a sickness in the United States because I work globally with other countries in Europe and Africa. They don't operate the way we do, and the laws that they have there support the employees in a different way than the United States operates. So I see, you know, burning the candle at both ends here in the U.S. the U.S. is uniquely exhausted.
Margaret (13:32)
There's so much, well, we know there's so much we can learn from other cultures. And I would love to explore that in another podcast.
So let's move on to lesson number two, which is storytelling. I agree that Taylor is a master storyteller, right? Yeah. Brooke, you said something to me the other day about Taylor. If she wasn't a global superstar, she would be something else. What did you say?
Brooke (14:06)
No, she reminds me, and I think this is where the tag for her post came from as an English teacher. Some of my most favorite brilliant... most authentic storytelling teachers were English teachers, literature teachers, because they understood there are so many levels to a story. So we tell stories on this podcast and there's so much I am not going to tell you guys obviously Margaret and Lisa about data around storytelling and authenticity.
In law school they teach us, it's a good story. Connect the law to the good stories. If you want to connect to a jury, tell a good story. But I can tell a story and Lisa may take something and Margaret may take something. And I think that's why when you saw footage of the Eras tour, you saw three generations, you saw grandparents, you saw grandchildren, you saw parents, you saw multi-generations and how you craft a story to attract that wide of an audience while still making it extremely personal and not vanilla, right? Because normally when we're trying to attract a very wide audience, we go very vanilla. As opposed to Taylor, who is talking about very specific feelings and very specific experiences, human experiences that a lot of people have but in a very specific way. And I think there's absolutely a lesson there in she tells it in a vulnerable way, she tells it in an authentic way, and it appeals to people on a mass scale.
Lisa (15:48)
Agreed and look at the bonding experiences that can happen even between, you know, like a mother and a daughter. For example, a mom who listened to Taylor Swift 15 years ago and now their daughter is into it. What an amazing bonding experience too. So there's so many different facets.
Margaret (16:09)
God, when did she start out?
Lisa (16:12)
She was a teenager. She's 35 now.
Margaret (16:15)
Holy crap.
Brooke (16:16)
I remember seeing her on, here's a big shout out to VH1 for those elder statesmen in the room. But VH1, way back when she was 15, before she could even drive, she was on the Singer Songwriters New Artist. And I remember her being featured and she had this like mass head of just curly hair. I remember thinking, how old is she? This song, was the... It was her first single and... it was Tim McGraw. And I connected so I was probably like maybe 18, 19. And I connected so much with that longing of love and young love and I'm gonna find somebody someday that might actually treat me well. I just, with that angst and...
Those words strung together like that means something completely different to a 44 year old woman now, but they absolutely resonate with me again in a different way.
Margaret (17:26)
Well, I think that the lesson of storytelling now, in our LinkedIn profiles, tell a story about your successes, about your wins, about you really are. And that's the way you're going to connect with someone else. And that especially relates to... you know, networking conversations when you interview that kind of thing. What do you think about storytelling in that way, Lisa?
Lisa (17:54)
That's what makes us unique. It's what gives us our personalities. It's what links us to other people and finds others interesting. I don't want to just see that someone is X-title. I want to know what got them there. What's their story?
Brooke (18:11)
You have to let your personality shine through and so that's what makes you Unique and I know I had a really hard time with that for a really long time trying the confidence code trying to be perfect. I Didn't want to sound like a bumpkin and that goes back to how do you view yourself and how, If we could bring it all the way back around, how are you viewing yourself?
And what does your authentic self look like to you? And I think being able to allow your personality to shine through, I have found that it's really brought me, big shout out to my LinkedIn community, my LinkedIn community, because it's attracted sincere and authentic connections. And also when we're talking about wins or how we describe ourselves, you are telling the world what you're most proud of and who you are.
And so when I see things on LinkedIn and I just think that, okay, so that's what lights you up. And I may not connect with that, which is great because I can find somebody that I connect better with. So what we're proud of really, if you're looking for things to try to understand what your values are, what are you proud of? And that'll help build some clarity in there.
Margaret (19:28)
Yeah
Lisa (19:28)
Yeah, I think of some of that also comes from, and this is my 53 year old self saying this because I wouldn't have said this 20 years ago, what my failures have been. That's what's built me. I'm sure Taylor Swift has had failure after failure after failure too. We just don't see it. But she can't get to the place where she is and the knowledge that she's gained along the way without the failures. Actually, we do see some of that.
And I know we're gonna talk about this a little bit later, but when she got her music back and how she navigated that with recording all her music over again, right there for us all see. And that's what makes life interesting and authentic and passionate.
Brooke (20:14)
I think that when you think about how she got her music back, and I was talking with a group of about 100 people and I said, hey, I'm gonna tell you about my failures, I'm gonna tell you about the lessons that I've earned, rather than the wins that I've had. And you're gonna learn a lot more from those. I mean, we do learn a lot more from failures, statistically, if we look at the neurology of it, than we do from the successes.
Margaret (20:15)
Absolutely.
Brooke (20:42)
But she has said and other artists have said that since she was so public about it, mean she wrote that was in folklore, that was in evermore, these are albums for people that don't know, you should go out and listen. But it was in there and the hurt and the pain and you could feel the vulnerability coming through all of those things. And for her to be vulnerable to say, you know, this does hurt me. I do want these back.
it has impacted other artists and one of the great things about her is that she's absolutely changed the industry. And I would argue one of the ways she's done it is through controlling her masters and being very open and vulnerable about what losing those meant to her.
Margaret (21:27)
Yeah. Do we want to say anything else about storytelling
Brooke (21:29)
I mean, we've talked about it, but what does it mean tactically to tell a good story? I would say, yeah, everybody talks about storytelling, but how do you do it? What does that look like?
Margaret (21:43)
So I recently was doing a lot of interviewing because I thought I going to do the traditional thing and go back to work for somebody else. And I practiced a lot that dreaded question, tell me about yourself, you know?
Brooke (21:57)
Bwuhhhh, we hate it.
Margaret (22:00)
Right? It's just terrible. I hate that one. So I practiced so many different variations and the most boring thing I could say is I've worked in marketing for over 20 years, But that's the way a lot of people answer it. And what does that tell you? There's no story in that. And so one of my answers and there I had many, but one of my answers was, "You know, I've found that companies often leave a serious amount of money on the table by not aligning their brand with what their customers actually care about. And that's been my focus for over 30 years, using marketing to build loyalty and revenue." And that led people to be, ⁓ tell me more about that. And then I could talk about the things that I'm super passionate about, which is branding and customer experience. And it just, you know, led into the conversation. Like I was steering the conversation where I wanted it to go. And it led into a lot of stories.
Brooke (23:02)
⁓ It's almost like you do this professionally, Margaret.
What? That's crazy. It's just crazy. It's just crazy. But in terms of storytelling do we need to give everybody maybe a little bit of a framework?
Let's say you're going to update your LinkedIn with a little bit of narrative. So the first thing we're going to do is we're going to set the scene. Okay. So I started out in blank thinking I wanted to blank and Lisa, I'm going to have you do this for us. Okay.
Lisa (23:43)
Okay.
Margaret (23:44)
So I started out in blank thinking I wanted to blank.
Lisa (23:50)
I started off in advertising thinking that I wanted to show my creativity to the world.
Margaret (23:58)
plot twist, but then something happened and I realized this.
Lisa (24:04)
plot twist, it felt disingenuous and like I was lying to people to try to get them to spend money they didn't need to spend. So I actually moved towards PR where I could be a more authentic voice rather than making something up based on something that was true.
Margaret (24:24)
and the transformation, that's when I leaned into this and discovered my strength or passion for this.
Lisa (24:33)
So while working in PR and marketing, I realized that it was very difficult to get that branding message and marketing message across and making customers happy when we had employees that were not happy. And so marketing was going to fail because the employees were miserable. So that's where I said, you know what? We need to work on the employee side. We need to help build this culture.
We need to pay attention to people. We need to mentor them. We need to give them training. And so I completely shifted to that and it's been very fulfilling.
Margaret (25:14)
Yeah, so you already completed the now. So today I help teams and clients and build revenue by bringing together the business strategies and their employees, right?
Lisa (25:28)
Yes, and cross-cultural communication, bringing in new companies and integrating them into an existing company. Yep, all of it.
Margaret (25:37)
Yeah. And that is, that's a hell of a story. Instead of Lisa going, yeah, I worked in advertising for 10 years and then I did PR for a couple of years and you know, that was fine. Then I did marketing for a couple of years and then I got into HR like bleh, like who cares? But to tell that story about why and the why and the why and the value that you brought to the organization and to the people in the organization.
That is the narrative arc. That is the story. That is what people are going to remember and relate to on any kind of level.
Lisa (26:16)
Yeah, and I do wind up telling people that story because they look at me and say, how did you go from marketing to HR? And I generally say, well, you know, before marketing, my true passion is communications and that also pivots to HR, but here's what happened. And they're always like, yeah, I see that. That makes sense.
Margaret (26:38)
Yeah. our listeners, if you think about creating your own narrative arc, there are so many places to use it, in LinkedIn, in your about section, make it sound like a, two minute Ted talk, not just a resume, job interviews, definitely networking events, have meaningful conversations, let's share some stories.
All right, let's move on. Let's move back to Taylor. So we've already touched on this, but let's talk about her most iconic, boldest, most unabashed power move. What is it, Brooke?
Brooke (27:13)
Regaining control of those masters.
Margaret (27:17)
Yeah, yeah. Telling her record label what? No, thank you. I'm just gonna re-record my entire catalog and make billions of dollars while I'm doing it. You know, that's not just being savvy, right? That is bold-ass leadership. So what can women learn?
Brooke (27:34)
It's strategic, right? So by reproducing the masters, she drove down the price of the masters to be able to purchase them and did the Eras tour and extended it to be able to have the capital to purchase them. And so that is where, like Lisa said, when we talk about strategy and everything is intentional. And I also think it's important to have, I think she surrounds herself with really good people and she listens to them. So I don't want anybody to walk away being like, I'm not Taylor Swift, there's only so much I can do and feed the dogs and keep the kids alive. She surrounds herself with really good people and then she does this crazy thing which is listen to them.
Lisa (28:21)
You know, shout out to, I think this is true. I think she got the idea to re-record everything from a statement that Kelly Clarkson made. I'm pretty sure I heard that.
Brooke (28:33)
So I don't know if that's true, but I will say that Kelly Clarkson says that every time she released a re-recorded album, she would send her a huge bouquet just of flowers.
Lisa (28:44)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I heard that she just said, why don't you just rerecord all your stuff? Kind of just like this flipping comment. And then Taylor took it and was like, well, what if I do? I mean, she's obviously the strategic mind behind it, but that light bulb idea came from just this, from what I've heard.
Margaret (28:46)
What?
Brooke (29:06)
We put it out there on Twitter. Listen, I know the deep magic folks. I'm not an Easter egg girly, but I do because even from a legal perspective, from a business perspective, studying the moves that Taylor Swift makes is an amazing lesson in all the things from IP law to even HR, how she takes care of her people. I remember her being a kid on Letterman and Letterman making a joke about band members don't get health insurance and she goes, mine do. Mine do. I mean, she looked like, she couldn't even be 20 yet. And so there's lots to learn from that model.
But yeah, Kelly Clarkson put it out, I want to say in a tweet, like she put it out on social media. And I just, I think that's Like that's insane and that's wild and that speaks to her ability, to be able to absorb counsel from folks around.
Margaret (30:12)
Wow. So Brooke, to your point, let's relate the bold power moves to our listeners, to ourselves. So let's come up with a couple examples of everyday power moves that we can make. What do you think?
Brooke (30:35)
Well, I think there's a time for counsel and a time for listening to yourself. And I will say when I went back to law school to go part time at age 35, I had had a burgeoning career. I was right on that cusp of where I'd always wanted to be. And the advice was don't do it. That's a terrible idea. From a lot of folks that were close to me because it was hard and it was challenging and I wouldn't do it again but make no mistake I wouldn't do all of that again but I wouldn't have it I wouldn't have it any other way.
And that's one of those things that I always tell if you're thinking about going to law school I always tell folks it's really expensive you have to pay it back you have to be able to make enough money to be able to pay it back reasonably
But the question is, can you live with yourself and do anything else and be happy? And so I would relate that back to this, back to a power move. That if there's something that's really important to you, if there's a pivot that you want to make, and it's going to be really hard, and it's going to take time away from your family, and it's going to take financial resources, the question is, can you live with yourself if you don't?
And to me, that's the biggest power move of all because that's really evaluating what your values are and what is most important to you and to be able to look in the mirror. that goes back to, know, bold power move could be saying, this is how I'm going to do these termination interviews. People are going to have dignity when they walk out of an office with me after they've been let go or
Somebody is going to get, I'm gonna make sure they're gonna get the healthcare they need because of the benefits plan that I'm gonna build. And it's not gonna be easy to talk executive leadership into it, but I'm going to, and that's gonna be a move. So I think we can make bold moves on the daily because we know they're bold because they're hard.
Lisa (32:46)
And going along with that, it's a simple power move. If you really don't believe in something and somebody's trying to get you to do something, the word no. You have to ask yourself what's the worst that's going to happen. I'd rather be true to myself.
Margaret (33:00)
So I've been interviewing a lot of mid-career professional women. I still need to do about 15 more interviews. So those of you listening, you're mid-career professional women interested in telling me your story, I'd love to interview you. So I need to do at least 15 more.
But I've been talking to a lot of women and I will say that there are many that feel stuck in where they are. They are successful. You know, make a decent wage and they're not particularly happy where they are. this one woman I talked to the other day doesn't feel particularly respected. She knows there's nowhere else for her to go in the organization.
And she's just kind of complacent about it. She knows she could probably find another job somewhere else, but she doesn't want to take the risk. She also doesn't want to take the risk of, let's say, making a stink but there are some days she wants to speak up. How do with that and still live to your values? How do you still make a power move and keep your integrity when you know you're not going to leave?
Brooke (34:34)
So for me, I'll start. I learned a long time ago that, I don't even know if I should tell the story, but it was back when I was in college and I was at a party. It was a frat party and it was way back, you know, in 1802. And it was a long time ago. And there was a young woman that was very inebriated and some young men were gonna take her home and I saw it and I said no, absolutely not. I'm gonna make sure that she gets home and they were like no, no, no. So it's like me, myself, five, two and like three very strapping, much taller men. And I said no, I will be taking her home.
And they were like, no, no, no, you can come with us, but you're not going to put her in a cab and go home and make sure she gets in her door safely. And so I shifted my tactics and I said, listen, if anything goes sideways, you're going to lose the ability to have parties on campus. Is that something you really want to risk?
Essentially baby Brooke was saying we can make a risk analysis right here. And so obviously I, they way backed off cause I said, hey, I think we have a choice, important choice we need to make right now. And it was obviously Brooke take her home. So I took her home.
And in organizations that I've worked in, I found, and I would say this to any business person making plays based on what's right isn't your most effective storytelling all the time. Sometimes it is.
So I would tell her, you know, if you see things that you don't like going on, it's not just this isn't the right way to treat people. It's a business case. Right. What I have found is that shifts the conversation. this is the actual legitimate business case.
And so that's what I would encourage and I would also encourage this individual, if you've made a choice that I can't leave because of a golden handcuff, whatever that looks like, which is a very real problem for a lot of people. What else is going to fulfill you? Is it having a garden Is it obsessively coloring the adult coloring books? I love those. Don't get started, they're addictive. But what does that look like to you? How can you be fulfilled in other ways?
But I also think side hustle culture also comes from I'm not being fulfilled at my work, so where can I be fulfilled at?
Margaret (37:32)
I like that. I like that. So you make a decision one way or the other. I'm going to stay. And you're in a leadership position. So I'm still going to contribute, but I'm not going to lead with emotion. I'm going to lead with facts, right? I'm not going to just...
Brooke (37:49)
I mean, the story tell around the facts. Like, I want to be clear. Like, there's data, there's facts, and then there's storytelling around it. So yes.
Margaret (37:56)
Right, right. So here's something I'm noticing that I think could be hurting our employee engagement, So don't just critique something, contribute, tell the story, lead with fact, not emotion.
Brooke (38:11)
tie it to the business model, That's what's so important. And sometimes it'll work and I'm not gonna promise it'll always work. But when I think about my own career, I think about I'm moving the chains one inch at a time.
Margaret (38:25)
You have to remember that you have put the data and the business case in front of them. And if they choose not to do anything about it, you have still done your job. You have no control over the final decision. And you have to learn to be okay with that if you're going to stay. That is the let them theory. There are some really, there's some really awesome nuggets in here. This is not a paid promotion.
Lisa (39:04)
I used that last night actually, I got all bent out of shape. I taking my daughter to the football game and the parking lot was full and this woman who was directing traffic said, just pull over to the side of that crosswalk and let her hop out. And this other guy got all mad at me, started yelling at me. He was so mean. And I'd had a week, so I was like emotional. I got all emotional, but I was like, you know what? Let him react to me like that. Let him. All I can do is control the way that I'm reacting to it. I know that I did what she told me to do.
Margaret (39:35)
Mm-hmm.
Brooke (39:43)
Do we have his license plate number? Asking for a friend.
Lisa (39:47)
We do not, and I thought about...
Brooke (39:48)
You can let him. Maybe I don't need to let him. No, that's a joke.
Lisa (39:52)
I know, I know. No, Brooke, I was like, do I go back and confront him? Like after the fact? Let it go.
Margaret (40:03)
That's right.
Lisa (40:04)
It has nothing to do with Taylor Swift, but hey.
Margaret (40:08)
Shake it off, shake it off. That's everything to do with Taylor Swift.
Lisa (40:10)
Shake it off. That's right. You're right. You're right. And she knew that lesson before the Let Them Book came out. So look how smart she really is.
Brooke (40:19)
Well,
Margaret (40:19)
There you go.
Brooke (40:20)
Like she said on the podcast, your time and attention and energy is expensive and not everybody can afford it.
Lisa (40:28)
Yes. Yes. Well, I loved on the podcast too, that she was saying, I can't remember the exact words that she used, but basically she has a value herself in way. That's not what she, how she places her own values. She doesn't care if she catches the ball or not. I loved that. What a strong, strong person who truly knows herself and what her worth is. I just admire that a lot.
Margaret (40:51)
Yeah. Respect. Respect. All right. This could be like a three hour podcast and up until now we've tried to keep them up under 15 minutes. So ⁓ we're just up to number four. But we're going to talk about naming our eras, right? It's definitely a genius brand move.
Lisa (40:56)
Definitely.
Margaret (41:17)
Naming her eras for anyone else can define them for her. So what is your next era? You know, is it your I want to be more visible era or these are my boundaries era or I'm gonna grind era. I'll tell you what, I'm out of that era. I don't know what I would call my current era, but I'm out of that I'm gonna grind harder, era.
Brooke (41:45)
For little like, you know, gal behind the curtain here. When Margaret grinds, diamonds are made, okay? Like she is grinding and her like low speed, her first gear if you will, is everybody else's like, I've worked 50 ...
Lisa (41:52)
That's true. Yeah.
Brooke (42:13)
50 hours this week and I'm tired. So.
Margaret (42:15)
Hahaha!
Lisa (42:16)
Yeah, I concur.
Margaret (42:18)
Aw, damn it. All right, thank you. Well, anyway, Brooke, since you spoke up, I feel like you've told us many times that your 40s are your time So tell us more about what kind of era is this for you?
Brooke (42:34)
Well, it's definitely my time. I recently, I saw Leanne Morgan in the last week. So since we talked last, Brooke can shift the pivot. My new bestie is Leanne Morgan, the comedian. Check out her Netflix show. Love it. However.
Margaret (42:42)
Your new friend, your new friend, Leanne.
Lisa (42:50)
Taylor's gonna be jealous.
Brooke (42:53)
Well, Taylor knows nobody can take her place ever in my heart. I don't know all of Leigh-Anne's lore. But what I do know is she is a grandmother who, to all of us, to me, hit the comedy scene maybe a couple years ago. So we're talking about a middle-aged woman looks like she came out of nowhere. And I saw her on a late night show.
And they said, was your success overnight? And she was like, no, absolutely not. I've been doing this for 20 years. She said, the difference is, thought I wasn't gonna, like this was as good as it was gonna get, playing where she played, like doing the gigs she did. She said, but I decided I'm just gonna go ahead and invest in myself and then I'm gonna give up this dream of being bigger. And she said, I'm not gonna do her accent, cause I can't.
But she basically said she hired these two little college boys for social media and they started putting her reels up and she blew up. And so my 40s is, and I've been doing this, big shout out to the folks that help Brooke Salazar behind the scenes. We love you. But working smarter, not necessarily harder, and understanding that I don't.
Things can be in my voice because I think that's so important to who I am. I would never do anything that doesn't feel authentic or that feels false to me. recognizing that sometimes there are people that are better than you at things. You know, if we go back to what Lisa just said about Taylor Swift and not catching the ball and leaning on them for help, to grow whatever side of your career, whatever side of your you want to grow and then that's okay. Hashtag can you tell I'm a hyper independent eldest daughter. So, this is little insight into my personality.
But I would say it is my era of working smarter and being more deliberate with where my effort goes. I don't think I'm the kind of person, and I think to what I just said about Margaret, I have come to peace with I am never the type of person that cannot be busy or involved in my community in some way, but being very deliberate about where that energy goes to.
Margaret (45:20)
like it. I like it.
Brooke (45:22)
So I think maybe Palm Beach Grandma. I'm also gonna try to caftans back. ⁓ So next time you see me, ⁓ I may be in a Blanche Devereaux type of caftan. I tried really hard during some of the worst parts of COVID, couldn't make it work, but she's gonna try again. And so you could see me in a Mrs. Roper caftan next time.
Lisa (45:29)
Hashtag. Love it. You know what, Brooke, it could become a side business. It could really take off.
Brooke (45:52)
I don't know if you've picked up on it, but I could hyper fixate on things. And when I got into caftans, I could open my own caftan shop at this point. Like I just went nuts and bought all these caftans. During COVID, I was like a professional on the top, cool and breezy on the bottom.
Margaret (46:19)
All right, Lisa, do you have an era?
Lisa (46:23)
Yes, I am in an era of I'm not competing against anyone but myself, trying to make my own self better every day. And again, I think this comes with age and some wisdom that comes from the years. I don't really much care what my critics say anymore. I'm going to be true to myself, what makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. And... Again, what I'm showing my children. If I'm happy and I'm not hurting others, of course, but if I feel good about what I'm doing, the naysayers, they can just go pound sand.
Margaret (47:03)
There you go.
Brooke (47:03)
I have a quick question, Lisa.
Who are your critics or your haters or your naysayers? Is that head trash or those legitimate people we need to review on LinkedIn?
Lisa (47:19)
We'll talk offline. ⁓
Brooke (47:22)
So it's not, so I think that's important. That's an important thing though. It's not head trash. My biggest critic lives in my head and she's really obnoxious.
Lisa (47:32)
Well, I am definitely my own critic too, and that's what I'm working on right now. I've had some outside influences that pushed me to make these realizations that my opinion that matters. I am smart. I'm not going to let people talk over me. And I need to be the first one to believe it.
Margaret (47:54)
Amen. Absolutely.
Lisa (47:57)
I legitimately said to somebody the other day who who was, you know, saying, don't don't take this to heart, whatever. And I said, no, that person's opinion doesn't really mean anything to me. So I don't actually care what they think. Yeah.
Margaret (48:12)
Awesome, awesome. That's what Taylor would say, right?
Brooke (48:16)
Well, if you wouldn't take advice from them, I don't take criticism from them. Number one. But number two, I think that's where it goes back to surrounding yourself with community, positivity. And my pop always said, you know, if you want to see your future, look around at your crowd. surrounding yourself with people that, yeah, I want to hear the truth from people like Margaret and like you that I respect and admire. I'll take that into account when I'm making decisions. But if you're around somebody that is draining your energy... I think that's one of those things that I really connected, again, the power of storytelling with Taylor Swift, to saying my energy and my time is valuable, my friendship is valuable, and am I putting it in the right places?
Because I will say not everybody, not everybody, it should dine at my table. Not everybody deserves to eat at my table. And that's not political commentary. Like a rising tide lifts all boats, but I'm not here to help folks that aren't keeping the door behind them open.
Margaret (49:36)
Yep, totally agree, totally agree. I do have an era and this is so obvious, but I am in my unabashed era.
Brooke (49:46)
Hello!
Margaret (49:49)
But I'm in my unabashed ... unabashed advocacy era, I don't know, something like that. But obviously I'm in my unabashed era and I want everybody else to be unabashed too. So there we go. And I want everybody else to name their era for so many reasons, for so many reasons. One of which is it gives you a story to tell, right?
You guys just like told your stories. Like what a thing to share with other women, with other people. And it gets them thinking like, what is my era? What do I stand for? What do I want for me right now? Not what do I want for other people? What do I want for me right now? And that is so powerful and important. So I want everybody else to name your era and I want you to tell us what it is. So.
Brooke (50:41)
I feel like there's a downloadable out there for that too.
Margaret (50:46)
We can make that happen. We can make that happen. Yes, we can. And we will put that, the story framework out there with that. All right, so let's wrap this up, ladies. So Taylor, who knew?
Brooke (51:07)
I knew. I don't want to say anything, but ⁓
Margaret
And I know she has so many other lessons. I know, Brooke, you knew. You guys knew. You guys knew.
Brooke
I knew I could teach a college class on her legal moves alone.
Margaret (51:16)
Hey, I bet, hey, if there aren't college classes, there should be. ⁓
Brooke (51:21)
There's a really good, I want to say master's class out there. There's a really good IP lawyer that's doing it. I'm not an IP lawyer, but, and I don't really care about IP, but he makes it fascinating. You're just like, that's amazing.
Margaret (51:26)
Mm-mm. No, it sounds terrible. yeah,
Lisa (51:35)
I'm sorry.
Margaret (51:35)
now ⁓ a branding class that would be very, very interesting or like a music law class. I don't know. Anyway.
Brooke (51:42)
Well, yeah, that's IP, right?
Margaret (51:44)
I don't know.
Lisa (51:44)
or even treating your employees, how you treat your employees and create that network amongst your own coworkers.
Margaret (51:49)
Yeah! You know, we just, we, could we create a Taylor Swift master's degree? Would she let us do that?
Brooke (52:06)
I don't think she would. ⁓
Lisa (52:06)
⁓ I don't know,
Margaret (52:07)
DANGIT
Margaret (52:09)
Will you ask her next time you see her?
Brooke (52:11)
If you're asking if I tried to connect with her head lawyer on LinkedIn, the answer is yes. Because again, girls, ladies, they's, I am in my unabashed era. And if you don't have the audacity, you won't have the outcome. And you would be shocked with who I'm connected with on LinkedIn because I was operating from an unabashed So I'll just shoot that right over to him. I'm sure he'll.
Lisa (52:28)
I applaud that. That's great.
Margaret (52:42)
All right, so we would never do anything illegal related to Taylor Swift.
Lisa (52:47)
Never. That's true.
Brooke (52:47)
No, never.
Margaret (52:49)
I'm just saying that, don't come after us. However, Taylor does not ask for permission to evolve and neither should you. Here's our quick recap. The four lessons, consistency builds trust. So stay anchored in your values. Storytelling is strategy. use it to make your brand relatable and memorable. Bold leadership is ownership. So what's your next power move? And naming your era gives you a solid roadmap for your narrative. Any other final thoughts, friends? Brooke or Lisa?
Lisa (53:25)
This has been fun. I hope everybody who's watching and listening gets something out of it as much as I did.
Margaret (53:32)
All right, ladies, remember, or listeners, you men, you know, I don't know if my dad's still listening. Probably not. My husband might be, but you're not too late, you're not too much, you're just getting started. So thanks for listening. Please subscribe and share and...
Hey, thank you, Taylor, for giving us the opportunity to create parallels of your genius to the modern working woman. So until next time, stay bold, stay unmuted, and as always, always do what ladies, be... unabashed. All right, bye ladies.
